Building the Future of Higher Ed: Vanderbilt’s Multi-Campus Strategy - Part 2

Universities today face mounting pressure to expand and modernize their campuses amid tightening budgets and shifting demographics. In this episode of The Construction Insiders Podcast, host Jessica Busch sits down with Vanderbilt University’s, James Kellerhouse and Matt Riethmiller, alongside Cumming Group Vice President RJ Panda, to discuss how higher education institutions are approaching growth with strategic financial discipline.
 
The discussion explores Vanderbilt’s “Dare to Grow” initiative, the university’s multi-campus development in New York’s Chelsea district, and the enduring importance of place-based learning in an era defined by technology and hybrid models. The panel also unpacks key challenges and opportunities—navigating regulatory hurdles, de-risking projects through phased delivery, integrating subtle technology into historic buildings and leveraging third-party partnerships.
 
For professionals involved in capital planning, project delivery, or campus strategy, this episode offers a thoughtful playbook for building intelligently amid uncertainty.

*Clips of Vanderbilt University content are used by permission. Vanderbilt University does not sponsor or endorse this podcast.

Transcript

Jessica Busch: [00:00:00] This is the Construction Insiders Podcast. I'm Jessica Busch bringing you the newest trends in strategies and construction, essential to anyone in the industry. Thanks for joining us again for part two of the Higher Education Deep Dive. As we discussed earlier on part one,  

R.J. Panda: I would say the, the last five years and the, the, the inflationary pressures on cost, uh, have really hit higher ed institutions, uh, uniquely. 

James Kellerhouse: Uh, we just completed a $3.2 billion campaign. We have over a hundred thousand volunteers and donors to Vanderbilt.  

Matthew Riethmiller: And it's about taking advantage of a market like this. When, when, when there is fear in the market, prices come down and the opportunity is there.  

James Kellerhouse: Um, so we had an opportunity, uh, with stakeholders to identify this incredible campus. 

Jessica Busch: All right, gentlemen. How do you go about choosing partners for this project we talked [00:01:00] about in part one? We're just gonna continue down that path, if that's okay. Um, how do you go about choosing partners for such a historic property like this Chelsea campus here in New York? And what does that process look like? 

Jessica Busch: The balance of local presence, um, national presence, this specific expertise. How, how are you, how'd you manage that? 

Matthew Riethmiller: First and foremost in construction, you have to be self-aware. If you're not the expert in the market, go find one. Uh, so for us in New York City, we absolutely were not. Uh, so we looked around for the right owners representative, the right partner, to literally be our extension in Chelsea. 

Matthew Riethmiller: And, uh, we were looking for one that not only had experience with higher education, um, but also with renovations of historic facilities. So, as we did our research and our, our competitive, uh, procurement process, we felt like Cumming Group and, and R.J. Panda specifically brought that level of [00:02:00] experience, that higher ed, historical renovation combination that we were, that we were really looking for, as well as a deep familiarity with the regulatory framework in New York City, the historic framework in New York City, religious facilities, uh, all of these bring a unique challenge in construction, and we wanted to make sure we had somebody on our side that, um, that had deep experience in all of those. The next step was finding the right designer. 

Matthew Riethmiller: Uh, we were very fortunate that Beyer, Blinder and Belle has decades of experience with this specific campus, uh, at GTS. So they were a natural pick, uh, for us and, uh. I said, any room, any wall, any uh, any previous renovation, they not only have experience with an understanding of they likely have prints and drawings  

Jessica Busch: Mitigating those risks. 

Matthew Riethmiller: That's right. Mm-hmm. Um, so that was, that was a key second step. And I think the third step is you have to get the right prime contractor, uh, that is much more exhaustive, um.  

Jessica Busch: As we're near the end of that process. [00:03:00] Taking a long-term lease at a what, 13 Building historic campus property, here in Chelsea has to present quite a few, let's call them unique challenges, right? 

Jessica Busch: Um, how do you balance that dance of preservation, restoration, but meeting very modern educational needs? What upgrades go into a campus? How do you decide what stays, what goes?  

R.J. Panda: And, yeah. Well, I'll, I'll jump into that first. Yeah. I think with a campus like, uh, the General Theological Seminary campus, um, in Chelsea, um, which is a historic campus, many individual buildings, a beautiful, enclosed, uh, uh, green space, um, on it, um. 

R.J. Panda: What you really wanna focus on is preserving what is character defining and modernizing, what is mission critical? Uh, so what we're looking at is [00:04:00] how do we, uh, especially around a, a landmarked property, this, this property is governed by the Landmarks Preservation Commission. It's protected, uh, rightfully so. 

R.J. Panda: It's a beautiful, beautiful campus. Um, and so we wanna make sure to focus on how do we restore the facades? How do we restore the windows? How do we make the bring back, those unique crafts, craftspeople elements of this campus to really showcase them. 'cause it is such a unique place, especially in New York City. 

R.J. Panda: There are not places like this that exist. They're incredibly rare. And then the next piece is how do we make sure that this campus, which is gonna operate 24 hours a day, 12 months a year, there's not gonna be a whole lot of time. Within, uh, once the campus becomes operational to make future upgrades 

Jessica Busch: mm-hmm. 

R.J. Panda: That we need to be as thoughtful about improving this owner occupied, owner operated, uh, campus, uh, and, and upgrading the, the MEP systems. Uh, looking at sustainability, uh, how do we make sure to, to invest in, in quality, [00:05:00] uh, easily maintainable types of materials. Uh, so those are all in, uh, uh, part of the selection process as we're, we're going through design with, uh, Beyer Blinder Belle and, and Loring Engineers, uh, as the MEP designer. 

James Kellerhouse: So, and can I just add something?  

Jessica Busch: Yeah.  

James Kellerhouse: Maybe that bridges a little bit of what, um, Matt was sharing and now R.J.. So when we talk about, uh, you know, finding our partners in this project, um, you know, I have, uh, a job to do on the ground too, outside of construction is really activate campus at a time when it needs to undergo significant restoration and construction. 

James Kellerhouse: So finding partners that understand that and how we balance doing the work that needs to happen open for students in the Fall of 26 while at the same time. We can host weddings in the historic chapel. We can,  

Jessica Busch: it's income coming in.  

James Kellerhouse: Yeah. We can have corporate events, uh, we can have our signature faculty lectures and book signings and provost events. 

James Kellerhouse: Um, finding [00:06:00] the right partners who understand that and will engage in those, that conversation, those dialogues, I think is really important. Yeah. And for me, not having a construction background  

Jessica Busch: mm-hmm  

James Kellerhouse: has been critical. Are the people that you work with every day? In understanding that. Uh, and so I think that's been a special part of the selection process, but also really balances, like this campus that has a chapel, it has an event space, it has classrooms, it's got residence halls. 

James Kellerhouse: Like we can, how do we use that while we're upgrading it at the same time, right? Yeah.  

Jessica Busch: So. New York might be special, but there's a lot of other big cities where, you know, universities, higher education, um, teams can, can be looking at, hey, should we do something similar to these guys? But when you're navigating something like regulatory issues, especially here in New York, um, landmarks preservation, um, commission, department of buildings, what are some of the [00:07:00] key factors? 

Jessica Busch: That have been helpful to keep, you know, an eye on, um, really what you need to know from the get go because it, it is, I'm assuming quite a dance.  

James Kellerhouse: Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, you know, I'll just start by talking about community engagement.  

Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm.  

James Kellerhouse: I think that's a bit of a, a through line here for us. Um, before we even had full or will have full sort of management of this campus. 

Jessica Busch: Yeah.  

James Kellerhouse: They hired someone like myself to be on the ground. To help build those relationships so that the community sees the impact of having a Vanderbilt University in its neighborhood, um, that I could meet with elected officials, talk about our vision, um, and that they weren't seeing it just from Nashville. But there seeing, 

Jessica Busch: It wasn't just an email, it was a person.  

James Kellerhouse: Right. They were seeing it on the ground.  

Jessica Busch: Passion, vision. Yep.  

James Kellerhouse: And, you know, community boards, neighborhood associations, landmarks, the elected folks have incredible influence on how, you know, we [00:08:00] move through that regulatory process. So it's been important to get their feedback, their insights to trust. 

James Kellerhouse: Who we are as a university 'cause we're new, um, in the space in New York.  

Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm.  

James Kellerhouse: Um, but then of course you get into the details of actually going through the regulatory process.  

Jessica Busch: Right.  

James Kellerhouse: Um, and we don't shy away from the fact that it, it may feel, you know, uh, bigger and, and more substantive than maybe other places we've explored before. 

James Kellerhouse: The bar is high in New York. We know the bar is high. That's why we want to be in New York. The bar's high and uh, so we knew what this would be like and I think we're fortunate to have partners to help us move through that process.  

R.J. Panda: Yeah. And I'll take it from there, if that's right, you know?  

James Kellerhouse: Mm-hmm.  

R.J. Panda: New York City is certainly a unique, regulatory environment, uh, and I think what, you know, all of the clients that we work with, uh, have to go through, uh, uh, the myriad agencies, uh, that need to sign off on a project like this.[00:09:00]  

R.J. Panda: Uh, so having, having, uh, relationships with the Department of Buildings and the Department of Transportation and the Landmarks Preservation Commission, and, uh having an overall comprehensive strategy, knowing the right partners that we, we talked about previously, Beyer, Blinder, Belle has been been great in this process. 

Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm.  

R.J. Panda: As well as our expediter. Um, and, uh, and, and developing an overall strategy for approaching all these different, um, all these different agencies and starting early. I think that's, you know, one of the things you mentioned, James, is starting early with the community. You start early with the regulatory agencies. 

R.J. Panda: You make sure that they know what your timeline is. They know what your, your approach to this project is.  

Jessica Busch: They know you're being very transparent from the beginning.  

R.J. Panda: Exactly. Being very transparent. And letting them know what you would like to do and getting their buy-in. Because if you have their buy-in, they're gonna be much more interested in helping you achieve your goals at the same time. 

R.J. Panda: 'cause that's what I've found with every agency that I've ever worked with, is that they want to help you get there. We need to do all the work to make sure that we're ready. But they want to help you get there. And [00:10:00] especially with educational institutions in New York City, they want, the regulatory agencies want for this to happen. 

R.J. Panda: Uh, so it's a, it's an exciting moment as we, we commence this process.  

Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm.  

R.J. Panda: Uh, and start to build this, this framework. And I think, uh, James' and, and Matt's passion about the campus and about growth and about the opportunity and the provost, uh, passion about this is really exciting. And that's all gonna translate into the way we approach these regulatory agencies. 

Jessica Busch: So, Matt and RJ, um, this might be more for you. Can you describe this timeline from initial concept to groundbreaking? Um, and then also to touch on what James talked about, what are the phases of opening? How do, how does this all kind of come together for, for the Chelsea campus here?  

Matthew Riethmiller: So, I'll say you start with, uh, maybe what we just talked about, which is you have to go on your own journey of discovery to figure out what the campus is what its history represents, what each one of the buildings has and doesn't have, and you have to do that journey together. The provost office, the executive director, the owner's representative, [00:11:00] we all had to understand exactly what each building, um what it was made out of, what it was intended for, what its unique characteristics might be. 

Matthew Riethmiller: I mean, the chapel has a hundred year old stained glass windows imported from England. That's something that, uh, transcends anything that we're going to do here. There are other parts of the campus, uh, that quite frankly have things that we need to completely replace. But you, if you come into something and decide you're gonna renovate it your way, uh, without understanding exactly what it is. 

Matthew Riethmiller: Um, you're going to waste the opportunity. So I'd say you start there with understanding exactly what the campus represents. Then you backwards plan to when the provost wants to open. The provost wants to open, we're gonna open, uh, and then we do our backwards plan to go, okay, what's reasonable to get done with, given what each building's condition and, and what its uniqueness represents within the timeframe that we have. 

Matthew Riethmiller: And then outside of that timeframe, if things aren't, maybe they're long lead items, or maybe we're gonna need full commission approval for some change that we're going to do, [00:12:00] understanding that there are other things that we're gonna have to phase in across the life of the project and that we backwards plan that as well. 

Matthew Riethmiller: And then cast these these, uh, these other events into the future. And then working with James, uh, and, and the provost office to go, okay, how do we fit these elements in that are not going to fit into the initial schedule to open the campus, uh, but put them in when time permits and when operations permit. 

Matthew Riethmiller: Because at that point, uh, construction really needs to be something that isn't seen or heard.  

R.J. Panda: Yeah. And I, I really appreciate working with Matt on, on this process.  

Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm.  

R.J. Panda: Because, uh, Vanderbilt has incredibly ambitious, uh, aspirations with this campus, uh, both from a, a scope and a schedule, uh, standpoint. 

R.J. Panda: And, um, Matt understands. What we can do and what we can't do and how, how to,  

Jessica Busch: He has background to make that, make those calls.  

R.J. Panda: And one, and, and, and I think the, the, the, the political will to have hard conversations with the stakeholders that are involved.  

Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm.  

R.J. Panda: So, that they understand [00:13:00] why we're advising the way that we're advising. 

R.J. Panda: Why a piece of the project may, we may say, we are gonna wait on this part of it because this is gonna be the impact if we don't finish it.  

Jessica Busch: Yeah.  

R.J. Panda: Uh, and I think that those conversations and, and how adeptly they've been handled, um, has made this planning process really successful so far. Uh, because it's, it's an incredibly complicated project. 

R.J. Panda: Every space is being touched in some capacity. Uh, and meanwhile, James is, you know, running events and, and having other things as we're preparing for students. So, it's a very active campus. We're used to doing this type of dance, uh, for, for our institutional clients. Um, but it's been, it's been very, very helpful to have folks on the inside that understand it well enough to navigate the stakeholders who are involved. 

R.J. Panda: Uh, 'cause that's the, that's the, the, the hardest part is the people.  

Jessica Busch: So, in this planning phase though, how are you balancing spending? For work that might not proceed? I mean, how, what's that dance like? We keep talking about dancing here. I mean, how, what's that [00:14:00] spending during the planning phase when things are a little still unknown? 

Matthew Riethmiller: Well, I mean, first, like I said, you have to understand your schedule and what you can do. But, if you understand the campus and you understand your schedule, then really what you're trying to do is inform leadership decisions about scope and, and cost. It really follows nicely with respecting the historical pre uh, significance of each one of the buildings. 

Matthew Riethmiller: Meaning if you want to do wholesale, gut and replace of what is there. You're gonna destroy your schedule and your budget, but if you respect the historical use of those facilities and then understand what the provost wants to use them for, what administration wants to use them for, and you fit that within the campus and Vanderbilt fits very nicely into Chelsea, right? The teaching spaces will remain teaching spaces, the administrative spaces, the dormitory spaces, the event spaces. I mean, um, respecting those and reusing those for their intended original purpose, uh, is going to be a lot lower risk for the university and, and it really helps plan the project almost on its own if you just respect what the campus [00:15:00] can provide  

Jessica Busch: In these dense urban environments. R.J., what logistical challenges are you faced with that you might not be facing at the, at the Nashville campus, for example, what type of environment for these kind of renovations are you up against?  

R.J. Panda: Sure. Well, all of our clients have a campus in some way, shape, or form. Um, so first talking about the similarities  

Jessica Busch: mm-hmm 

R.J. Panda: is that we are gonna have to make sure that the space is safe as a campus, uh, that the operations, that, that the movement of pedestrians and faculty, staff, guests to the campus that, that the logistics of the space are managed so tightly, uh, that safety is paramount. And I think that's the most important piece. 

R.J. Panda: And the next is the, the community impact. Uh, we're gonna be potentially having, uh, uh, deliveries on, on adjacent streets and logistics, and there's gonna be noise periodically [00:16:00] and, uh, a variety of different construction impacts that we'll have to manage on the campus, on the campus community, and in this, um in this type of an environment, it's not just your campus stakeholders that you need to manage. Make sure that your students understand what's happening with construction or your faculty or you're timing things around an academic calendar or around events that are on campus, but also you have, uh, residences that are right next door for community members that are not associated with your campus. And so you've gotta be very thoughtful and respectful about how what you're doing is impacting your neighbors  

Jessica Busch: Communication, respect.  

R.J. Panda: Exactly. Communication is, is a key, um, very thorough, detailed planning with, uh, with, with firms and teams specifically that have expertise in this. 

R.J. Panda: Uh, they have to understand how to operate in campuses like we're gonna be building here. Uh, so it's just such an important piece of it.  

Matthew Riethmiller: I would say if you compare it to the, the central neighborhood residential communities that we're building on the Nashville [00:17:00] campus, which is very much a design from the ground up, um, in, in, in art terms, it's a, it's a white canvas, right? 

Matthew Riethmiller: We can, we can do a myriad of things, uh, with a ground up build. This is the equivalent of a, a masterpiece that has to be lovingly restored, uh, while respecting what it is. But at the end, it still has to serve its purpose, right? It still has to create that environment of learning and discovery. It still must have the most modern amenities to enable that, that growth for the researchers and the students. 

Matthew Riethmiller: And you have to provide that, uh, on schedule, on budget,  

Jessica Busch: And to touch on that. So when designing for things like dormitories or residential spaces. I'm assuming here we gotta prepare these kids, these students for real life in an urban center. So, have your design standards changed? Um, [00:18:00] what's different about the design from the Nashville campus to here in those types of spaces for your students? 

Matthew Riethmiller: Specifically when we get down into the design elements, it's like, okay, within the brownstone and brick that is here in Chelsea, how do we create the most modern amenities without it looking like, uh, we've disturbed a masterpiece,  

Jessica Busch: But also it's New York. So like a dishwasher might not be a requirement. 

James Kellerhouse: Right.  

Jessica Busch: Which might seem crazy in Nashville to not have one.  

James Kellerhouse: Yeah, that's right. The exposed brick wall. Right, right. Which just adds a character.  

Jessica Busch: Yes. Yeah. Got it. And how does that trickle into features you're incorporating for collaboration purposes in terms of faculty, students, New York's professional, large, professional community, um, and has programming mirrored that? Or is it going to, I mean, how does that all play a part?  

James Kellerhouse: Yeah, I mean, so collaboration is, is key for, for us. So, some of the spaces, [00:19:00] fortunately, so on our campus in New York, uh, we have these historic buildings and then we actually have a new, newer build on the edge of campus. Um, and that space was designed to be more of a collaborative community convening kind of space. 

James Kellerhouse: For students, um, really a library student gathering space. And so it's already built out into these smaller rooms where students can get together or get together with faculty, uh, for classes. Um, we'll, we'll of course invest in technology. That of course, takes that little classroom to the world, right? In a lot of ways. 

James Kellerhouse: Um, but fostering that environment's, um, going to be critical force. And when we think about on our undergraduate program, the idea is that students are connecting with industry. They're going to be in internships, and so we think about education and where that's going with internships. But then think about how people work today, right? 

James Kellerhouse: So students aren't just learning, but they're learning and working at the same time. And [00:20:00] that actually can be hybrid.  

Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm.  

James Kellerhouse: So, we also have to create an environment where students will be working potentially 25 hours a week with industry, but one day a week they're remote in that industry. So, do we have zoom booths where they get quiet spaces? 

James Kellerhouse: Do we have offices that they can, um, hotel in? We wanna get them out of their dorm room  

Jessica Busch: mm-hmm  

James Kellerhouse: or their residence hall. 'cause like all New York City apartments, they're not huge rooms. You know, they're, they're, you're there to live.  

Jessica Busch: Right.  

James Kellerhouse: Um, and not necessarily to work  

Jessica Busch: mm-hmm  

James Kellerhouse: and so the campus also needs to be activated in this other way that I think that it'll be really interesting, unique, and it's, and we have, you know, that's, that's the lens with which we're also looking at these spaces, right?  

Matthew Riethmiller: And that design process becomes very iterative, what he was just describing of working with the provost office and working with James to, let's add this feature, or let's, let's put this, this, uh, this requirement in this particular space that, might completely [00:21:00] change the electrical loading or the mechanical loading in that space, right? 

Matthew Riethmiller: And, and now we've got to, you know, as we say, completely reprogram. But, you have to be willing to do that. And we've done that dozens of time on this times on this project, and we just have to be able to articulate, okay, what, what does that really mean? Um, but when you have the best folks and, and, and we do, you can always recover from those and I think it's that adaptability and flexibility that we're trying to put into the Chelsea campus that is, is gonna really maximize the student experience. But you have to be willing to constantly redesign. And we are.  

Jessica Busch: Well, and I know we've talked about this offline guys, but the lab for the future. 

Matthew Riethmiller: Mm-hmm.  

Jessica Busch: Um, what experimental approaches to the education spaces, how are you, are you changing utilization maybe from a standard? Um, how are you testing kind of this. Lab of the future?  

James Kellerhouse: Well, you know, I, I think we see it already with, um, our students who come here, um, without a structured program.  

Jessica Busch: Hmm.  

James Kellerhouse: You know, so they come, they go to the different [00:22:00] cities to do internships in the summertime, or possibly they're doing a capstone already in New York City or, you know, West Palm Beach during the academic year. 

James Kellerhouse: Um, so we've tested sort of this model already. We know.  

Jessica Busch: I see.  

James Kellerhouse: That's the case. We also, I think really interestingly from a stakeholder standpoint. When we were talking about New York, we did a, we do a lot of pulse surveys on campus. Um, generally you do them with students and, you know, they're a text pulse. 

James Kellerhouse: Uh, and you know, the, the, the response rate is fairly low. You get excited if maybe you get three to 5%, um, response rate. We did a pulse survey for New York City, um, this was months ago.  

Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm.  

James Kellerhouse: And the response rate was, was off the charts and the interest rate was in like the high eighties.  

Jessica Busch: Oh, wow.  

James Kellerhouse: So, we know that this is what students are looking for. 

Jessica Busch: Okay.  

James Kellerhouse: And we know that this is going to be the,  

Jessica Busch: So, you're getting the feedback?  

James Kellerhouse: We're getting the feedback. And the faculty too. I mean, we started you, you know, we have to lead with the academic [00:23:00] program  

Jessica Busch: mm-hmm  

James Kellerhouse: because that's what higher education is. And so our faculty, we have a committee. That really launched our programming. 

James Kellerhouse: Um, all of the, um, you know, events that we had this spring, uh, great turnout, 250 people packed rooms.  

Jessica Busch: So, this is not done in silos?  

James Kellerhouse: This is not at all done in silos, and I think it's done with that student-centered, academic-centered approach, and we know that this is, this is what our community's looking for. 

Jessica Busch: Interesting. So looking ahead, um. Vanderbilt might be leading the way, but there are other universities, higher education organizations that are looking to others for a blueprint. How do they expand? How do they navigate these changes in the education world? What advice would you give? What are your top three takeaways for someone that comes to you and says, Hey, we're kind of thinking about doing this.[00:24:00]  

Jessica Busch: What are, I would love to hear from all three of you kind of what's your, here's step one? Go for it. Good luck. 

James Kellerhouse: You want me? You wanna start?  

Matthew Riethmiller: Sure, go ahead. There are a couple of keys related to the team. One, your internal team, and really your owner's rep is an extension of that internal team. You better have the best possible folks on that team. Our internal team is outstanding from start to finish. Um, they're experts in their field and they're highly professional, but they're also humble and willing to admit, uh, when they don't know something so that we can really leverage each other's strengths. 

Matthew Riethmiller: But I think each, each campus is going to bring some type of unique challenge and the way that you push through that unique challenge is to say, okay, uh, every single one of us is inadequate to take on this challenge. This 120 plus year old campus, this regulatory framework that, that is New York, [00:25:00] this schedule to turn this campus over, uh, by the provost. 

Matthew Riethmiller: All of us will fall short. Every plan will fall short on delivery. But, but all of us together, uh, we got shot. And not only shot, I would say it's probably fairly easy.  

James Kellerhouse: Yeah, I, I mean, I think Matt makes a great point because we're, we're lucky to sit here today and talk about, you know, this experience with New York City and, and growth. But, uh, what you don't see behind us are the teams of people who are absolutely incredible. What I thought about taking this role, no way could I undergo or undertake any of this without just the, the thought leadership, the, the drive, the dedication, the, the collaborative spirit, um, that we have on campus. 

James Kellerhouse: If you don't have that with vision, um, and the planning, you know, you're not going to get very far in it and I think the feedback I would give to is stakeholder engagement is key. It has helped us through the regulatory process. It helped us, [00:26:00] you know, identify this opportunity and that's starts on campus. 

James Kellerhouse: It starts with your students, it starts with your faculty. It starts with your alumni. That's how we got to New York City today. It was all of that together. So, you know, think about that strategy when you're, when you're looking at growth opportunities. Make sure you're communicating, building, strategizing with insight, feedback from key stakeholders. 

James Kellerhouse: 'cause they're the ones who will make you successful in this. 

Jessica Busch: Right. All right, R.J..  

R.J. Panda: Yeah.  

Jessica Busch: What are your key takeaways?  

R.J. Panda: Yeah, well, I, I will, um. There are two things that I heard both of 'em say. I just wanna emphasize, uh, the first is the team. Uh, 'cause I think the team is critical, both the team on the, on the client side, uh, the, the consultants that, that we work with and, uh, above all my own personal team, who I think does, uh, an exceptional job, uh, at, at working around the clock to, to deliver this project for, uh, for Vanderbilt. I think the second is um, that what Matt was saying about an institution really under knowing, knowing, uh, itself well enough, [00:27:00] uh, because this is a trend. 

R.J. Panda: We are, we're seeing this happen in major urban areas around the country and internationally i, I think it was a, a, a more common trend historically, and now it's becoming a more common trend in the United States. Uh, and it, it is a risky bet. So, having the right partners, um, knowing yourself, doing pilot programs, uh, trying to figure out less risky ways to test out certain strategies. 

R.J. Panda: Uh, leasing space versus buying space, uh, you know, renovating versus building new, some things that lower your capital investment off the bat. Uh, and you make sure that you have these opportunities if you need to pull back that you have them available. Uh, 'cause we're always contingency planning. That is, that is 99% of what I'm doing is thinking about contingencies. 

R.J. Panda: If this doesn't happen, what do we do? If this doesn't happen, what do we do? And that's very much, uh, the way that this would need to be approached is, is because it could be very devastating if it's done [00:28:00] wrong, but it could be amazing if done right. Uh, so I think knowing the, the institution knowing itself, knowing that its brand is strong enough to carry a different city, uh, when a lot of times these brands are so equated with one location in the United States, you know, it's Boston, or it's Nashville, or it's San Francisco or, or Miami. 

R.J. Panda: That to go to a different location can, can be a, a really risky proposition.  

Jessica Busch: Um, but mitigating it in smart ways  

R.J. Panda: Yes.  

Jessica Busch: And being thoughtful and strategic.  

R.J. Panda: Yep.  

Jessica Busch: Okay. All right. Well, thank you all. This has been very insightful.  

James Kellerhouse: Thanks, Jess.  

R.J. Panda: Thanks Jess.  

Brad Ducey: Thank you for joining us for the Construction Insiders Podcast. 

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